Posts by Band on the Run

4

PreAbrahamic God Followers

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

a friend and i were talking about some group that followed the judaeo/christian god before abraham.

doesn't a priest come to minister to him?

aren't there sacrifices?

I read the wikipedia article. It seems to make a distinction about YHWH being different from the other gods not so compelling. Abraham seems to be almost a fluke. Basically, we follow the scripture of this group almost by historical accident. It makes a lot of sense in anthropolical terms. My study indicates that Paul did not write Hebrews so I'm not thrilled with Hebrews as a source.

All these many years I just assumed that time in a modern sense began with Abraham. There is so much emphasis on his story. Not much on his pre-story. Personally, I find a man willing to sacrifice his own son despicable. He sounds like the ideal JW.

I hope I have access to an academic library soon so I can reference journal articles. I want something more reliable than wikipedia but I'm also not writing my doctoral dissertation on this subject.

Thanks for th info.

4

PreAbrahamic God Followers

by Band on the Run in

jw
friends

a friend and i were talking about some group that followed the judaeo/christian god before abraham.

doesn't a priest come to minister to him?

aren't there sacrifices?

Band on the Run

A friend and I were talking about some group that followed the Judaeo/Christian God before Abraham. Doesn't a priest come to minister to him? Aren't there sacrifices? It sounds as though a formal religion existed. It is intriguing b/c there is hardly any mention of it. What happened to it? Of course, I'm assuming Abraham was a historical person. Does anyone know the modern scholarship on this? And what variant the WTBTS teaches? Also, why don't we use Judaeo/Christian/Moslem God? I need to look this up in the Encyclopedia Judaica. Thanks.

76

My Story Part I - My Parents

by Farkel in

part 1 - my parents.

it's a funny thing, time.

notwithstanding einstein's relativity, time means vastly different things throughout life.

Band on the Run

I believe the Barnes may be the osteo connected with Caycee. It would fit the time period -- I think. Those old mags were very spooky.

76

My Story Part I - My Parents

by Farkel in

part 1 - my parents.

it's a funny thing, time.

notwithstanding einstein's relativity, time means vastly different things throughout life.

Band on the Run

I believe the Barnes may be the osteo connected with Caycee. It would fit the time period -- I think. Those old mags were very spooky.

59

Elder wants to do "other activities" with me

by InterestedOne in

jw
friends

i'm fully aware that this is a cult, and i was waiting for the social elements to kick in.

so far, i have just been doing the "bible study," discussing doctrine, etc.

however, recently one of the elders said he wants to get together with me to do other activities.

Band on the Run

The situation is sad. There is no way to underestimate the need for male recruits. It is such a male worshipping religion. Few men are stupid enough to fall for it. When I was active, women were members to an unhealthy excess. In many ways, it could be a man's dream come true. I've discussed men with worldly friends and brothers with Witnesses. There is a desperation among the Witnesses. African-American women deal with a similar phenomena but my impression was that middle-class black men were plentiful compared to available brothers. Maybe it was just my experience. We lived next to a very poor area. I wonder what type of man signs up when the vast majority run.

I'm certain she is a lovely person, absent the Witness beliefs. It is termed the borg for a reason. You will be bound to the Society. Your manners and actions sound very commendable but they also place you at increased risk. Others wrote of what happens once you are officially a Witness. My family attended Kingdom Halls where no one would even glance in our direction. They did find my father, however, whenever they needed a loan for the Kingdom Hall or a sister did not pay her utility bill. I have little toleration for this charity work. My family suffered greatly financially. I went without so some foster mother could not have her utilities turned off. Utilities must be included in the foster care fee. Looking back, it was outrageous that she had custody of children. The love fades quickly.

My father was at Bethel as a bodyguard. Once he left, those affiliations ended. You don't know loneliness until you are a Witness. Every social contact you make can be crushed by an innocent misunderstanding with the elders. There should be JW lawyers like canonical lawyers. The rules are legalistic and often make no sense.

Of course, posting here is like preaching to the choir. We have been hurt by the Witnesses. Doctrinal differences are one thing. Rejection by those you view as God's exclusive agent hurts to the core. No matter what I did I was not good enough.

11

Looking for Home Owners Insurance Advice

by lisavegas420 in

jw
friends

hello knowledgeable people.. i am looking for advise on home owners insurance.

we've lived in the same house of 12 years and had the same home owners insurance for 12 years.

every year the insurance goes up about $100.00.

Band on the Run

I practiced insurance law but at a corporate level. It wasn't practical for every day advise. The state insurance commissioner is the place to go for any problems with an insurer. Often the commissioner's office just sends complaints to the law firm that represents the insurer. There is pressure to resolve these cases quickly. It helps the consumer in close cases.

Colleagues always told me to beware of buying cheap insurance from fly by night companies b/c insurance cos do go out of business. Lloyds of London, an insurance market, will pay claims even when the syndicate is insolvent. I'm always tempted to go for a medium rated company.

There must be some industry wide group that monitors companies for solvency and claims pay outs. Costs must be going up. There should be an average of increased costs. I don't know anymore.

Getting your own estimates is crucial. A friend in law school was hurt cutting some trees on family property. He telephoned and was offered $50. Next, he telephoned the most fierce personal injury firm in our country and asked to speak to a partner. Armed with the managing partner's name and claim that they would settle for $75,000, the company had a change of heart. He said he would cut out the law firm for a large sum. The company immediately caved. He lived in fine style after that. It took him about three minutes on the phone.

31

Voting a conscience matter??

by Cynisister in

happy new year one and all!,.

the local elders sent a letter home with my hubby, pretty much stating that after "many" attempts to visit and speak with me, this letter is once again asking to meet because it came to their attention that i voted in the last pres.

election.

Band on the Run

I am truly shocked! Voting is active participation in this world. It involved automatic disfellowshipping in my day. I am a lawyer and have often thought how I could not take the oath of allegiance as a Witness. In fact, I wondered how the Society obtains Witness lawyers. My supposition is that they have to be converts.

I vote and help monitor the polls. As I do so, I think of the Witness prohibitions.

So God changes his mind frivously. What about the brothers and sisters in Nazi Germany or Japan who did not participate in cult worship. The early Christians? I've heard Christians served in the Roman army and also that they did not.

It seems the best argument to me is not to cite the Watchtower article at first but to say that you went through it pro-forma and cast no vote or wrote in "WTBTS" on the blank ballot. My thinking is that the Watchtower shows they are not current yet your fate is dependent on this group of men. Another thought I have is to fake ignorance. Oh, brother, I had no idea. Fake tears. Thank you for correcting me. I will never, ever even go through the mere motions of voting again now that you opened my eyes.

You have a snitch close to you. Would they check voter rolls to catch one person?

26

what is the wt's stance on dubs visiting historic churches?

by moomanchu in

i drives me crazy when jw's go on tours of historic churches, the vatican, or mosques .

they go in the church take pics, and oooo and ahhhhh over the buildings.. why the f_ _ _k are they expressing awe and wonder at what they believe to be satan's world headquarters .. don't they know jehovah is soon about to destroy all these architectural wonders.. jw relative has just come back from visiting the vatican.. stupid cult aaahhh !!.

.

Band on the Run

I posted about St. John the Baptist with a cross. Altho I am not an art historian by profession, I spend much time in art museums, primarily in NY. The artist may not have meant the image literally. It may have been symbolic that John was a precursor to Jesus of Nazareth so he prepared the way for the cross. I've always found the interplay between John the Baptists and his followers and Jesus and his followers to be fascinating. As usual, there are so many questions left for supposition. My favorite art is Impressionism b/c it is pretty. Impressionism was hardly considered pretty when it debuted. It was considered gritty, dirty and who the h...wanted to see the lower classes and the underworld. Dali's Jesus on the Cross (I don't know the actual title) hangs at Museum of Modern Art. I can't stand to look at it for more than a few seconds. It disturbs me profoundly which undoubtedly is what Dali sought.

I trooped through the Met on Christmas Eve in search of Ringo Starr's golden drum. The Medieval Art is not something I would want in my living room. It strikes me that artists then knew their Bible forwards and backwards. Of course, they also related Christian legends forwards and backwards. This culture of Bible seems lost. It seems a shame.

I do find it strange that the church did not put up a plaque with a note explaining the work, esp. since it is not Bibically literal. My prejudice towards things overtly Catholic and nonBiblical shines through despite myself. Such art makes me nervous. When I first toured the Anglican cathedral in NY, I was utterly shocked to see Nimrod as a Bible hero. I interrogated the guide. In fact, I almost fainted at the idea of NImrod as Biblical hero. When I arrived home, I read the Nimrod account without Witness commentary. It was radically different than taught by the Witnesses. They extrapolated a lot and ran with the negative and consequences of not obeying the Society. The Anglicans extrapolated it in a positive view.

May I ask someone why KHs don't have windows? My brother and I joked about people throwing bombs in b/c they hate having their home life disrupted. It sums up the religion in a nutshell. Oh, how I adore stained glass windows. Being deprived of beauty, I appreciate it even more.

26

what is the wt's stance on dubs visiting historic churches?

by moomanchu in

i drives me crazy when jw's go on tours of historic churches, the vatican, or mosques .

they go in the church take pics, and oooo and ahhhhh over the buildings.. why the f_ _ _k are they expressing awe and wonder at what they believe to be satan's world headquarters .. don't they know jehovah is soon about to destroy all these architectural wonders.. jw relative has just come back from visiting the vatican.. stupid cult aaahhh !!.

.

Band on the Run

Actually, I can see an artist depicting John the Baptist with a cross to show he was the forebearer of Jesus. The artist would not mean it literally. It would have a symbolic meaning. I'm trying to think of some Renaissance or Medieval example. The Dali of Christ gives me the creeps. I would never gaze at it alone. It is wonderful art but sometimes I am too lowbrow for great art.

What I do find strange is that the diocese did not erect a plaque explaining the painting and giving a provenance.

The first time I toured the Cathedral Church of St. John the Divine I was utterly shocked to hear Nimrod described favorably. I practically fainted. Nimrod in stained glass as a hero. Why not Judas? or Satan? The tour guide told me he was an Old Testament figure. I sad precisely but he is Nimrod. When I reached home, I pulled out my New English translation and read the Nimrod account. I can't recall all the details. The Cathedral's portrayl did not seem such a stretch. The Witnesses embroidered the story to make Nimrod much more vile than depicted.

The last straw for me is the UN. Nimrod tied into how awful the UN was. My secret dream was to be a UN international civil servant. If I were not a clunk at languages, I would be there or at State. A close friend of mine worked there. He was decent and sweet. When I grew up, the UN did what the US wanted so we worshipped it. What I find cool about it is there is this oasis of mostly American-hating foreign citizens in midtown. You can't feel the US is the center of the world.

33

WTS ADVICE FOR YOUNG WOMEN WANTING TO MARRY

by still wondering in

wait, speak to deborah first.. .

the upside of this approach is that deborah is a real woman and will be able to give you girls proper advice.. the downside is that you will either need to first find a top rate medium (shes been dead quite a while) or wait for rutherfords god to bring her back from the dead (which rutherford maintains will happen any day real soon now if not even before the convention ends).. you will easily recognise her as rutherford has thoughtfully printed a picture of her in the new and bang up to date children book.. unfortunately if you dont live in the usa you will need to telephone her, which thankfully has recently been invented.

expect to hang on the line a while as she will be very busy playing her agony aunt role for so many jws worldwide all seeking her advice, but rutherford says that it will be well worth the wait.. .

Band on the Run

What about older women who wish to marry? Frankly, I know Deborah is OT but not what made her claim to Bible fame. Wasn't it Dinah who was raped? I suppose a lot were raped b/c the Jewish line is matrilineal to account for rape. If she were raped, it sounds like a Watchtower fantasy fulfilled. Rutherford despised women but could not keep his hands off them.